张紫璇：人类废墟/自然图景 ——
影像语言之间的错位与对话
Leah Zhang: Human Ruins/Natural Landscapes ——
Displacement and Dialogue Between Imagery Languages
影像语言之间的错位与对话
Leah Zhang: Human Ruins/Natural Landscapes ——
Displacement and Dialogue Between Imagery Languages
Interviewer: Zhuo
Date: 27/09/2023
Keywords: human ruins / natural landscape / moving-image
Date: 27/09/2023
Keywords: human ruins / natural landscape / moving-image
张紫璇 (Leah Zhang) 毕业于罗德岛 MFA Photography 专业，艺术实践围绕着影像、摄影、声音和装置展开。Leah 关注媒体作为一种传播手段所带来的社会历史影响，以及生态与人类媒体之间的关联，她也将其作为一种技术手段一一测量、探索和记录自然。通过摄影、影像和声音，她的作品通过多感官、超现实和情感的转化，探索社会历史和自然之间的多维关系。
Leah Zhang graduated with an MFA in Photography from the Rhode Island School of Design. Her artistic practice revolves around imagery, photography, sound, and installation.
Leah focuses on the social and historical impacts of media as a form of communication, as well as the connections between ecology and human media. She also utilizes it as a technical method—to measure, explore, and document nature. Through photography, imagery, and sound, her work explores the multi-dimensional relationships between society, history, and nature, in a multi-sensory, surreal, and emotional approach.
Leah Zhang graduated with an MFA in Photography from the Rhode Island School of Design. Her artistic practice revolves around imagery, photography, sound, and installation.
Leah focuses on the social and historical impacts of media as a form of communication, as well as the connections between ecology and human media. She also utilizes it as a technical method—to measure, explore, and document nature. Through photography, imagery, and sound, her work explores the multi-dimensional relationships between society, history, and nature, in a multi-sensory, surreal, and emotional approach.
A: Welcome to Artisle~ Could you talk a bit about your recent residency project in the Netherlands?
L: 我在de Ateliers驻地，它是荷兰三个最大的驻地项目之一。这里的艺术家都非常年轻，大多数是画家，也有做雕塑和影像的。
L: I'm in residency at de Ateliers, which is one of the three largest residency programs in the Netherlands. The artists here are all quite young. Most of them are painters, but some are also working with sculpture and video.
A: 有关注到你的创作中对“矿山”有着不同视角的探索，矿山对你有什么特殊的意义吗？你对作为自然资源与人造景观的矿山有何不同的解读吗？
A: It could be noticed that your work explores “mines” from different perspectives. Does the idea of mine have any particular significance to you? How do you interpret mines as both a natural resource and a man-made landscape?
L: 在美国拍摄的那座矿山是当年开采煤矿的时候出现的，它在上世纪上半叶曾被评选为全球最大人造物，后来有人在山顶盖了房子，矿山慢慢成为当地地形的一部分。它是工业的一座纪念碑，曾经是很壮丽的景观，但是又在人们的视线里慢慢消失变得很日常，这种荒诞但是又平凡的感觉是它的奇妙之处。
L: The mine I photographed in the United States was created during coal mining operations and was once considered the world's largest man-made structure in the first half of the 20th century. Later, someone built a house on top of it, and over time, the mine gradually became part of the local landscape. It stands as a monument of industry and was once a grand spectacle, but it has slowly faded from people's sight and become ordinary. This sense of absurdity combined with normalcy is what makes it so intriguing.
无题，78x63cm，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，2020
《Lizzy》，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，
20 x 25cm，2020
A: The work “Fossil Morphology” explores different mining landscapes in China and the United States. What are the differences in the mining industries between these two regions, and how do you express that in the work?
L: 美国的矿山对我来说像一座死火山，我更关注的是人类活动退潮后的景观以及人类废墟和自然的关系。国内的矿山仍然在运作、在活动，我关注和表达的是围绕矿业的社会关系和基础设施。
L: To me, the mines in the United States are more like dormant volcanoes. I'm more interested in the landscape after human activity has ebbed and the relationship between human-made ruins and nature. In contrast, the mines in China are still operating and active, and my focus there is on the social relations and infrastructure surrounding the mining industry.
《无题》，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，43 x 35 cm，2020（图左）
《无题》，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，20 x 25cm，2021（图中）
《光的研究》，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，20 x 25cm，2021（图右）
《无题》，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，10 x 7.5cm x6，2021
A: The image-based work “Notes on Carbonization” in this project has separate narrative logic for the visuals and the audio. Why did you choose this approach? Is there a shared expression or metaphor behind the visual-audio conflict?
L: 其实我从一开始做影像就开始对影像语言之间的错位感兴趣，我总是在想影像如何才能制造误读，误读的实践一开始是从视觉和听觉的关系开始的。在《化碳记事》里这个行为是把一个故事投射在另一个情境中，使一个社会或一个事件作为另一个的背景，但也可以将它们解读为彼此独立的故事。我并不是在追求最精确的投射，两个故事也并没有准确的相互呼应或者对立，而是一种模糊的对话关系，但是由于声音和视觉总是倾向于相互说明、互相融合，一旦遇到不可调和的地方，两者之间就会创造很多冲突，就好像人与人的关系一样，这种调和与冲突可以说是贯穿着我对两种不同身份、不同语言的理解和我在做作品时与当地美国人的关系。
L: From the beginning, I have been interested in the mismatch between visual and auditory languages in my video work. I often ponder how video can create misinterpretations, and my exploration of this concept starts from the relationship between visuals and sound. In “Notes on Carbonization”, I project one story onto another context, making one social narrative or event as the background for another, while they can also be interpreted as independent stories. My goal isn't to create the most precise projection—the two stories don't necessarily align or oppose each other, but instead engage in a blurry dialogue. However, since sound and visuals tend to explain and merge with each other, when they can't be reconciled, a lot of conflict is created, just like human relationships. This blend of reconciliation and conflict reflects my understanding of two different identities and languages, and my interactions with local Americans while creating my work.
《化石形态学》，摄影，幻灯片投影，页岩， 2023
A: The work “Fossil Morphology” consists of three parts: film, photography, and sound installation. How do these three parts relate narratively? Besides image, sound plays a significant role in this project’s expression—what role does sound play? How do you view the relationship between sound and image?
L: “呼吸”作为“化石形态学”这件作品的一部分，主要关注的就是地下发生的事情，它讲述的是如何以声音这种暧昧的方式和地下的结构进行沟通，在这个项目中我把温度转化成了可听的声音。照片讲述的是地上的事情，通过这两个我建立起当地的空间关系，地上的人呈现出怎样的面貌，地下又发生了什么，通过这种空间关系来使两者互为背景，我希望构造和拼贴起来的的是一种关于当地知觉的整体图景。
L: “Breathing”, as part of “Fossil Morphology”, focuses mainly on what happens underground. It explores how to communicate with the underground structures through the ambiguous medium of sound, for which I convert temperature into audible sound. The photographs depict events happening above ground. By using both elements, I aim to establish the spatial relationships of the local area—how people appear above ground and what occurs beneath it. Through these spatial relationships, they serve as the backdrop for each other. I hope that by constructing and collaging these elements together, I can create a comprehensive perceptual landscape of the area.
《呼吸》，多频道声音装置，14分17秒，2020
A: You have many works that focus on the impact of human activities on nature. In your opinion, what role does artistic language play in addressing these natural and environmental issues?
L: 齐林斯基在《媒介考古学》里讲到克拉德尼的声波图形，它的再现方法是“用沙撒在一些按几何形状切割的玻璃或金属薄圆片上面，然后将它们跟一张振动着的弓放到一起，就像小提琴的弦一样。按照声音的频率，就在圆片平面上产生出由于沙的积聚而造成的一些细小的线条或区域”，我一直认为这个例子再好不过地诠释了自然和艺术语言之间的关系。当代艺术和技术有着同样的根源，人虽然无法完全掌握自然，但是可以通过各种手段和自然进行沟通，而自然可以在人类的技术上通过各种形式转印自己，这些印记就成为了艺术。
艺术就是这么一个转述的媒介，通过转述人有的时候离自然近了一点，有时候又会导致沟通的失败（成功的部分很多时候变成了科学），尽管困难但仍然努力去沟通的姿态也是艺术情感力量的所在。
L: In Media Archaeology, Siegfried Zielinski refers to Chladni's sound wave patterns, explaining that the method for reproducing these patterns involves "sprinkling sand onto thin glass or metal plates cut into geometric shapes, then using a vibrating bow, similar to a violin string. Depending on the frequency of the sound, tiny lines or areas of sand accumulation form on the plane of the plate." I have always felt this example perfectly illustrates the relationship between nature and artistic language. Contemporary art and technology share the same roots. Although humans cannot completely master nature, they can communicate with it through various means. Similarly, nature can imprint itself onto human technology in different ways, and these imprints become art.
Art serves as a medium for paraphrasing, and through this process, humans sometimes get a bit closer to nature. At other times, communication may fail (with the successful parts often turning into science). Despite the challenges, the effort to communicate with nature embodies the emotional power of art.
A: 社会问题也是你关注的话题之一，作品“Yuandan”《元旦》中以动物的视角记录了人类社会变迁，动物在你的表达中扮演着怎样的角色？是否想通过动物隐喻或表达什么呢？
A: Social issues are also a topic you focus on. In the work “Yuandan”, you document human societal changes from an animal's perspective. What role do animals play in your expression? Are you trying to use animals as a metaphor, or to express something through them?
L: 我非常喜欢动物，把影像和动物结合在一起这件事我想了很久，但这也是极其困难的，“元旦”是一次尝试。在这里面我关注的是动物的时间和人类的时间。
羊圈外的画面虽然上去空无一人十分静止，但是其实在有很多的事发生，每一天环境都在改变，塌陷的土地马上就要被填平，新的大楼就要被建起来。羊圈里面的羊虽然在不停地运动，虽然仅仅记录了看起来似乎是一天晚上到第二天早上发生的事，但是其实羊的生活每天都是规律的不变的，短暂的一天就是永恒的重复，是生和死的反复循环。这两种时间的并置和对话是我想通过这个双屏视频表现的。
L: I really like animals, and I've thought about combining imagery and animals for a long time, but it's quite challenging. “Yuandan” is an attempt at this. In this work, I'm focusing on animal time and human time.
While the scenes outside the sheep pen appear empty and motionless, a lot is actually happening. The environment changes every day—collapsed land is quickly leveled, and new buildings are about to go up. Inside the sheep pen, the sheep are constantly moving, and though the video seems to capture events from one night to the next morning, in reality, the sheep's daily life regularly and consistently repeat. A brief day represents an eternal cycle of repetition, a continual loop of life and death. This juxtaposition and dialogue between two different types of time is what I aim to convey through this dual-screen video.
《元旦，2022》，多屏录像，2022
A: Does the setting in the photograph “I was born in a company” hold special significance? How is your reflection on the changes in your hometown demonstrated? Has your perspective on your hometown influenced how you view things in your creative process?
L: 和在美国创作时一样，我关注的是被遗忘的东西，我拍摄的很多空间几十年都没有怎么改变过，这些场景也是两种经济状态下的交叉点。
我的思考其实并不以变化为基准，更重要的是把握什么是没有变化的、什么是一直存在在那里但被人忽视的。至于家乡的影响，可能因为我身在其中所以自己很难看见。
L: Like when I was working in the United States, I focused on forgotten things. Many of the spaces I photograph haven't changed much in decades, and these scenes represent the intersection of two economic states.
My reflections are not necessarily based on changes, instead, I focus on understanding what has remained unchanged or what has always been there but overlooked. As for the impact of my hometown, I find it difficult to see it probably because of being too close to it.
《无题》，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，78x63cm，2019
《无题》，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，78x63cm，2019
《无题》，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，78x63cm，2019
《无题》，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，78x63cm，2019
A: The depictions of people in that work are quite special. Are they connected to you or your growth in any specific way? What are you trying to express through photographing them?
L: 其实那个时候我好像已经在想静态影像的人物建构问题。我希望观众可以通过照片去了解画面中人物的想法或者窥探他们私人的生活状态，但是又希望画面不至于过于舞台化。
在我故乡的小社会中家庭单位的边界是极其模糊的，每家每户的人相互认识并且掌握对方的秘密，和很多在大院里长大的小孩一样，我们每个人的家庭隐私都极大地被他人侵犯，这种既公开又私密、又亲密又刻薄的关系创造了许多人际关系之间的张力和看待他人的方式，我想抓住的就是这些画面。
L: At that time, I was exploring the idea of constructing characters within static images. I wanted viewers to get a sense of what the people in the photos might be thinking or to glimpse into their personal lives, but I also didn't want the picture to be too staged.
In the small communities of my hometown, the boundaries of family units are incredibly blurred. Everyone in each household knows each other and their secrets. Like many kids who grew up in housing complexes, each family's privacy is significantly compromised by others. This dynamic of being both public and private, both intimate and harsh, creates a lot of tension in interpersonal relationships and shapes the way people view each other. This is what I wanted to capture in my images.
《无题》，摄影，收藏级艺术微喷，78x63cm，2019
A: What made you choose film as a medium to explore the transformation of value systems in the work “Absolute Purity”? Does extracting the silver from film have any special reason or significance?
L: 这个作品的价值转换想要探讨的是银的价值变化，以及它与中国电影史的关系。在中国电影刚刚发展起来的时候其实一直采取的是一种大厂制度，依靠国家的力量生产电影，因为只有这种制度才能够动用财富，为了倡导公有制的分配制度，银在很长一段时间里是需要被上交至国家而不能私有的，所以银不能说是一种财富而更像是一种材料。
现代社会银变成了非常个人化的财富，就像人们身上佩戴的银饰那样，我将银提取出来的方法放到现在的社会价值观来看可能是一种回收财富的方法。这种矛盾感就是这个作品在价值转换方面在表达的。电影可能是图像、可能是像素，可能也可能是胶片上的感光材料（银）。这个作品想呈现的是，材料背后也有围绕着它一整套的价值体系变化。
L: The transformation of value in this work explores the changing value of silver and its relationship to the history of Chinese cinema. When Chinese cinema first started developing, it followed a large-scale studio system, relying on state resources to produce films. This structure was the only way to mobilize wealth for production. To promote a public distribution system, silver had to be submitted to the state and couldn't be privately owned, making it less a symbol of wealth and more a utilitarian material.
In modern society, silver has become a highly personal form of wealth, like the silver jewelry people wear. The method I used to extract silver can be seen as a way to reclaim wealth from a contemporary perspective. This sense of contradiction is what this work aims to express in terms of value transformation. Film can be viewed as imagery, as pixels, or as the light-sensitive material on film (silver). This work wants to show that behind the material lies the change of an entire value system.
《绝对纯洁》，从《刘巧儿》整部16mm电影胶片中提取的银，2.54x3.81cm，2020
A: Photography and moving image are both your common forms of expression. How do you view the roles of static and moving images in your work? What is the relationship between your creative intention and the way you express it through image?
L: 虽然我做很多动态影像，但我的思维方式是非常摄影的。摄影意味着必须要与眼前的景观做一个协商。因为直接摄影只能记录真实的东西，而脑袋里的图像又是另一回事，所以总要把现实和自己的预期调和。在动态影像方面，我的工作方式也十分类似，我总是从事实出发，通过拼贴真实的素材和加入杜撰，让事实变成另一个样子。
L: Although I create a lot of moving image, my way of thinking is very photographic. Photography means you have to negotiate with the scene in front of you. Direct photography can only capture real things, whereas the images in your mind could be something else, so you always have to reconcile reality with your expectations. With moving image, my approach is quite similar—I start from facts and then use a mix of real footage and fictional elements, transforming the reality into something else.
《元旦，2022》 在“Don’t Look a Gift Horse
in the Mouth”展览现场，
Woonhuis，de Ateliers，阿姆斯特丹，2023
A: Are there any artists or image-based works that have had a significant impact on you? How has your viewing of images influenced the way you approach your perspective when creating works?
L:太多了，今村昌平、Chantal Akerman、阿彼察邦、Simon Starling、Kader Attia、Rosemarie Trockel等等，我还喜欢看早期电影和早期摄影，也会看很多民间影像。我一直很关注图像的本体是什么，在看别人的作品时也会去思考他人对这个问题的理解，我并不会严格地将自己局限在某一个话题上（如矿），我的每一个作品都首先是从对图像的思考出发的。
L: There are many—Shohei Imamura, Chantal Akerman, Apichatpong Weerasethakul, Simon Starling, Kader Attia, Rosemarie Trockel, and others. I also like watching early films and early photography, along with a lot of folk images. I've always been interested in the ontology of images—what is the essence of an image? When I view other people's work, I think about how they approach this question. I don't strictly limit myself to a particular topic (like mines). Each of my works firstly begins with a consideration of images.
A: 之后的创作会尝试一些新的媒介或有其他跨学科的尝试吗？有没有什么新计划可以透露呢？
A: Will you be exploring new media or attempting other interdisciplinary approaches in your future work? Do you have any new projects you can share with us?
L: 前我会做装置，但主要还是围绕影像。离开学校以后越来越少有接触跨学科的机会了，如果有机会可以与其他领域的朋友合作一定想要尝试！前几年我比较关注观念本身，现在对我来说形式和材料的力量更加重要，新的计划暂时不便透露，等项目出来之后再给大家介绍吧！
L: In the past, I worked with installations, but they mostly revolved around imagery. After leaving school, I had less exposure to interdisciplinary opportunities. If I get the chance to collaborate with people from other fields, I’d definitely like to try it! A few years ago, I was more focused on concepts, but now the power of form and materials has become more important to me. I can't share any new plans just yet, but once they're ready, I'll be happy to share them.